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Why does it need to be so hardened? Isaiah Thus saith the Lord, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool : where is the house that ye build unto me? He must get really dizzy. Remember, we are reading the Scriptures without preconceived notions. This brings us to the Scripture many have tried to use concerning the shape of the earth:. Isaiah It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth , and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in :.

In the past, I have used this same verse to defend the globe idea of the earth myself. An ice-skating rink is a circle. We skate on it, going round and round, but never, up, over and around. It is not a sphere. It is an enclosure in the shape of a circle. So also it would appear that the Earth is. Isaiah LXX [It is] he that comprehends the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants in it are as grasshoppers; he that set up the heaven as a chamber, and stretched [it] out as a tent to dwell in:.

This is describing an enclosed system! How enclosed is it? Genesis 1: 14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: 15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so. Many times, I have referred to the wonderful work of Dr.

Solving the ACTUAL Flat Earth Puzzle (100% proof)

Carl Baugh and Kent Hovind among others to support that view. But, I subscribed to their model, because like them, I have always believed in the globe representation of the Earth floating in space. He said YHWH placed those things in the firmament that was dividing the waters above from the waters below. This is all inside the dome! Verse 14 never takes us outside of that setting. Nor does the rest of the chapter. But there it is. Plain as day… if not imposing preconceived notions upon the text. Many ancient cultures had some variation of this general view of the earth:.

You will see similar depictions to the one on the right all over Egyptian iconography. The Biblical cosmology is never explicitly stated, so it must be pieced together from scattered passages. The Bible is, from Genesis to Revelation, a flat-earth book. This is hardly surprising. As neighbors, the ancient Hebrews had the Egyptians to the southwest and the Babylonians to the northeast. Both civilizations had flat-earth cosmologies. The Biblical cosmology closely parallels the Sumero-Babylonian cosmology, and it may also draw upon Egyptian cosmology.

The Babylonian universe was shaped like a modern domed stadium. The Babylonians considered the earth essentially flat, with a continental mass surrounded by ocean. Sweet salt-free waters below the Earth sometimes manifest themselves as springs. The Egyptian universe was also enclosed, but it was rectangular instead of round. Indeed, it was shaped much like an old-fashioned steamer trunk. The Egyptians pictured the goddess Nut stretched across the sky as the enclosing dome. What was the Hebrew view of the universe? The Genesis creation story provides the first key to the Hebrew cosmology.

The vault of heaven is a crucial concept. A good craftsman could beat a lump of cast brass into a thin bowl. Such a large dome would be a tremendous feat of engineering. The Hebrews and supposedly Yahweh Himself considered it exactly that, and this point is hammered home by five scriptures:. It literally means the sky. Other passages complete the picture of the sky as a lofty, physical dome. He stretches out the skies [ shamayim ] like a curtain, he spreads them out like a tent to live in…[Isaiah ]. Likewise, the context in both cases requires elevation.

In Isaiah, the elevation causes the people below to look small as grasshoppers. In each case the context requires a literal vault or dome. As Robert J. The word comes from another very similar word, both of which mean:. Circle means circle. Not ball. Isaiah clearly knows the difference between a circle and a spherical object. Note that a few chapters prior he uses a completely different word for a ball:. Whereas, of course, a spherical object you can toss. He knew the difference. Seems to me, the circle is something cut into something else. In Genesis, we saw the waters were deep.

Then the Holy Spirit moved across the waters. Job KJV He hath compassed the waters with bounds , until the day and night come to an end. Isaiah KJV It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth , and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in :. Here we see Job, Moses and Solomon setting the stage, with Isaiah actually being the last one in this list to write of these things.

Based on the Law of First Mention then, we must understand that he is only confirming what has already been said by others before him concerning how YHWH literally carved a circle into the deep. This kind of language does not give us a picture of a ball floating in endless space. Rather it gives us something that looks more along the lines of the following, which depicts the earth as being a circular mass carved into a base of something else that has 4 corners:.

The above pic shows the circle of the earth as having both convexity and concavity to it.

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I found that to be rather odd. It also does not show the dome. So, I decided to create my own 3D rendering of the Biblically described model see below. I suspect that before the Flood, the waters below outside the dome would have been raised up to cover most — if not all — of the dome.

The Flat Earth Theory: Fact or Fiction? | AHRC

If true, obviously, the sides of the container would have to be higher. Also, if true, this would have caused an increase of pressure inside the dome and may account for the hyperbaric conditions many scholars describe as existing prior to the Flood. In the meantime, consider also what the Psalmist said:. Which image now better fits what we are reading thus far concerning our circular earth with a boundary around it? In addition, our solar system—Earth and all—whirls around the center of our galaxy at some , miles per hour… but there are a number of Scriptures describing the Earth as being fixed and not moving.

This particular passage from Job really caught my attention:. Again, Job is believed by many to have been the first book of Scripture written. This is the Creator talking here! If ever there was a Flat Earther, anti-globalist Scripture, this one is it. How do you twist and distort that Scripture to fit a rotating globe, freely floating in space? Using the principle established in the Law of First Mention, we see there are a number of other authors who carry this theme forward:.

Rather, we have a verbal depiction of something totally stationary, established on a firm foundation…. Here are two of the above verses taken from the Septuagint the others are pretty much the same as the KJV :. Zechariah And they answered the angel of the LORD that stood among the myrtle trees, and said, We have walked to and fro through the earth, and, behold, all the earth sits quietly, and is at rest. That may be one way to read these verses which requires a globalist preconceived notion.

But what if we just accept what it says, literally at face value? How does that look on a floating, rotating globe? So then what are these verses saying? Again, tossing out all preconceived ideas of a spinning globe, just reading the text by itself, no one would ever think anything different from what it says. Job who shakes the earth from its place , and its pillars tremble.

Psalms Thou didst set the earth on its foundations, so that it should never be shaken. Isaiah Therefore I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall remove out of her place , in the wrath of the LORD of hosts, and in the day of his fierce anger. Isaiah He who flees at the sound of the terror shall fall into the pit; and he who climbs out of the pit shall be caught in the snare. For the windows of heaven are opened, and the foundations of the earth tremble. Those are just a few examples of this nature.

There are others, which clearly show the earth being knocked around in various ways. I think there is a difference between YHWH being able to shake, rattle and roll the earth at His pleasure or in His anger and the earth being removed altogether from its pillared foundation, so personally, I see no contradiction here. It appears to me that YHWH has set this place up to be permanent, and though He may knock it around from time to time, its still not going to leave its firmly established foundation.

Yes, earthquakes and catastrophe are permissible, but utter destruction will never come. Take the Flood of Noah for instance. Clearly, the world was rocked:. The earth still stands, unmoved, on a sure foundation. Indeed, without a doubt, Scripture is telling us the earth is not constantly moving. In fact, there is growing evidence within the scientific community revealing that the earth is not rotating either.

It is quite stationary in every respect. For further evidence of this in both history and science, please take the time to watch this video:. Start breaking down the various arguments. Consider some of the other renderings of this verse:. So, here again, we have the sense of a vaulted dome setting on the earth. This dome of Heaven is also described as circular:. Rather, we see the Scriptures painting a picture of a stationary, circular Earth under the circle of heaven.

Many Christian apologists want to convince us this is talking about the four cardinal points as we saw in the GotQuestion. Because I must say, if the Bible really is written in 5th Grade reading level English as so many have tried to teach me that it is my whole life, then, a simple reading of the Scriptures absolutely does not paint a picture of a globe! Rather, again, Scripture appears to be describing something that may look a lot more like this:.

All of the land masses would be scoured clean of anything not attached to bedrock. This means rocks, topsoil, trees, buildings, your pet dog, and so on, would be swept away into the atmosphere. Now watch these videos, as told by those who believe the current, dominant view of our cosmology:. So, if we are to claim we believe the Bible is true and we can take it literally, we have a big problem concerning the stories that describe the sun and moon standing still, and even going backward. I think these are questions worthy of answering from a Biblical world view.

But such an answer will never satisfy a skeptic with an analytical, scientific mind. They will instead write our Bible off as a book of fantasy. Science triumphs over fantasy. Why believe a book that is so demonstrably false? See the problems we run into? In an enclosed, flat, stationary model however, those problems are easily solved. The same with Scriptures like these:. I can hear the arguments already. Daniel is having a dream. But what if… we just believe what everyone else has been telling us in the Scriptures? If the world is flat, each of the above examples are totally doable.

We just have to believe it. But what about the alleged planets going around those stars? Nothing in the ancient texts even hint at her as being a reflector of the sun. Even science confirms the fact that her light is quite different from that of her fiery, male counterpart. The Universe is going to roll up like a scroll? How are we to imagine the cosmos that Carl Sagan and Stephen Hawkins want us to believe in doing this?

Furthermore, are we to accept the notion that the literal fate of the allegedly ever expanding Universe, as taught to us in school, literally hinges on the sin and subsequent judgement of humans on Earth? Are the worlds allegedly orbiting countless suns in billions of galaxies all going to be judged and burned up because of us? Is that really fair? Yet, this is exactly what we are literally forced to accept if we are to believe the Holy Spirit inspired words of prophets like Isaiah or apostles like Peter and John….

Those beliefs help shape the daily lives of billions of people. It is the case that believers in a Flat Earth or Bigfoot are minorities though not so small as one might suppose. Other paranormal, pseudoscientific, and fringe beliefs are much more widely held. Taken in aggregate, paranormal-type beliefs are an almost universal and traditionally understudied part of the human condition. This article does nothing but shoot fish in a barrel.

Debunking flat earth is very easy to do. I was hoping to see something about why there are people who invest so much in it that they form a Flat Earth Society. Flat Earthers have an emotional investment in a flat earth. One man recently was ready to launch himself in a home-made rocket to go up and prove the earth is flat, but he was thankfully denied permission to do so by the FAA, probably for his own safety and that of others. Another has gone high up in a helium balloon to prove the earth to be flat, but from the view from the module swaying slowly back and forth like the pendulum of a large clock, we can see a gentle curvature of the earth.

Other desperate efforts to prove the earth flat include citing Albert Einstein and Isaac Newton, of all people, somehow force fitting their physics into a flat earth worldview. Something else is going on. What puzzles me is that most Biblical inerrantists rely on translations. OT , and more than 25, manuscripts for the NT — resulting in hundreds of varying Bibles, often contradictory, all purporting to be The Bible.

I wonder what the fundamentalists of other religions — Wiccan, Zoroastrian, etc. This particular article barely touches on that harder question. Expected to skim a few sentences because this topic is so……uninteresting. Expectations exceeded. Nicely done Daniel. I found the topic much more intriguing than I expected myself, especially when reading original sources from the 19th century Flat Earth movement for my longer Junior Skeptic treatment. We know the world is not flat because we have Cats!

If the world was flat, all the cats would be at the edge pushing things over. If the earth is flat, why is the north pole the center of the disk. Why not the south pole? Or any other site? Where would it go? Or to make America great again…. It is about the same as it was 60 years ago Antiscience is still being Trumped by NewAge flapdoodle of all sorts. To me, the best indicator that the Earth is close to a sphere is that when a person who lives in the Northern Hemisphere goes on a trip to the Southern Hemisphere, the moon is seen upside down.

It was fun and it honed debating skills. NO ONE there believed for one second it was true, nor that any semi-educated person living in an industrial society could actually believe such nonsense. We thought that the first few were joking. As not to give them any more ammo for this odd-in-theth-century belief, we stopped debating it.

Too bad. It was a lot of fun while it lasted, and it was worth the time and effort we spent on it. Let me just say, if there are any women in this group of nuts, they must be flat-chested. Gravity is real. I remember the complicated system that was devised to try to support the view of the flat Earth at the center of the universe and the epicycles that were necessary to explain how it worked. For the sake of those people who still believe in it, the Roman Catholic Church has ceased burning heretics. You will note that The Pope, when he gets off of the plane, kisses the Earth.

This is not because he does not believe in science; Otherwise he would never have gotten into it in the first place. I recall seeing a posting about the flat earth being part of a much larger planet, big enough in fact that oceans would be flat while the separation would be explained by the Antarctic ice wall. The common suspension of disbelief that the universe is endless then why not the same suspension of disbelief of a near infinite or infinite plane of the earth. If the sun and moon are repelled similar to magnets with the same polarity this could easily explain both being suspended above the earth plane.

The climate at the South pole is reportedly far colder and supports less life forms than the North yet the North receives equal distribution and angle of the suns rays on an annual basis. If the Antarctica is the barrier to the rest of the planet which is theorized to be near absolute zero then this could all make sense. If gravity is determined by the mass of the apparent object then this would also explain gravity for the flat earth. The direct flights from Australia to South Africa and South America within a specified time and distance is pretty much the most compelling argument to debunk flat earth theory.

This being said the lack of star positional movement over thousands of years also makes the spinning globe expanding universe argument hard to believe. If the science comes down to what can be faked and what can be proved, the heliocentric model definitely has the upper hand. If it is proven that the earth is in fact flat then essentially they will just need to let all the loonies out of the insane asylum to make way for the global earth believers, so not much will change.

Like energy that cannot be created or destroyed, it just changes form. Same for crazy people they cannot be created or destroyed just replaced. Since we really have no idea where we came from or where we are going it is not fair to ridicule or insult people for a theory that seems out in left field. If people are afraid to try and express an original thought for fear of persecution then how are we going to come up with new ideas? We are not spinning on a ball moving faster than the speed of sound!

We are on a stable earth as found in the scriptures. There is no gravity holding us to a spinning ball. How unreasonable can you get? There were no moon landings and there is no such thing as Santa. And saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending upon him, as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners, and let down to the earth.

And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree. I often wonder who are these articles directed at? Flat earthers- not likely the reasons they believe are not evidence based the facts do not support the claim. Non flat earthers- justify their position. Skeptics — to debate with flat earthers. Like debates about gods existence see 1 the debates are about the facts and a waste of time.

When they should be social psychological in nature. All in all science should plough forward and not waste time on debating subjects crushed by overwhelming evidence. If the belief causes harm address the aspect from the appriate position. I believe the earth is flat. If you wish to convince me otherwise, I would need you to give me a couple things. Gravity you say? So does gravity get to pick and choose what it holds down? Billions of steel from sky scrapers, and billions of tons of water held in place but I can jump off the ground only weighing pounds?

There have been several test proving the earth does not move. There has never been one to prove the earth moves. If so please show me. Stop using science fiction, and get back to science fact.


Pictures and people saying something prove nothing. This is what a flat earth believer looks like: An amateur rocket-maker finally launched himself off Earth. They use lies and and made up bullshit from Flat earth society,which has nothing to do with the real flat earth movement. Any flat earther knows flat earth society is a Government ran web sight to discredit the actual flat earthers.

The Skeptics Society & Skeptic magazine

In reading the postings many are questioning, why debate this? My answer is because its an insult to those who were persecuted, tortured and executed for questioning biblical beliefs. Real science forces us to change our comfortable beliefs if evidence fails to support them. The reason people stick to flat-earth beliefs regardless the contrary evidence, is that it takes more energy to change a direction than continue in the same comfortable direction.

The more time and energy a person spends on something the more of a loss there is in abandoning it. Like others who love real science l struggle to understand how anyone can choose blind faith over real science when real science has done more good than harm compared to religious faith. The Earth is Flat since its creation by the creator. It can be proved by real science and facts. The southern hemisphere direct flight routes from South Africa to Australia is pretty compelling evidence.. Just wondering. Is it to show the world the most obvious truth.

Just copy paste this to you-tube and just look at it with open mind and eyes. Let it sink in. I can shoot down every one of your garbage half ass twisted claims about this subject. See the sun at all times? Perspective and distance. Stars being different at different locations, distance and angle. Density retard. Jackass author. Hey, I would like to see some photos taken from the edge, as you know, Vikings have sailed the oceans, but have never gone over the edge? Pancakes and Pizzas are flat and they all have edges…. Falsification is how science works not the sum of the affirmations.

Unfalsifiable unrepeatable images from space are not scientific evidence. Science deals with substance not images. Especially when they depict physics known to be impossible to replicate on earth. The authenticity of ANY space image can not be made by anyone, You have no reference other than other space images that purport to be real.

What are we left with? Trusting roughly people out of the trillions that have lived to shape an entire world view on. More people have seen bigfoot. More people have seen aliens on earth than claim to have seen space! I think the earth is flat. In the bible it speaks of the four corners. There are no corners on a globe. The earth is self powered. They earth is set on a foundation. Water all ways takes the shape of the object it is in. For my self if I accept the globe the bible is out the window. You know the windows of heaven.

I can not prove every thing about the flat earth nor can I explain it. We live in a matrix. A simulation. Big Bang Voo-doo science says that in the beginning, there was nothing, and from nothing, came the big bang. And the irony, rocket scientists believe that illogical fantasy! I, on the other hand, being a Know-It-All, and computer engineer that works on a D-Wave computer for Google, know that the programmer who programmed our simulation most certainly did not create it out of thin air!

He used a well-defined algorithm that I and others can now manipulate to change material events from the past to whatever the hell we want. Does that make me god? That makes me a hacker to gods creation perhaps, lol. Back to flat earth. Silly pranksters! Well played, well played. The Matrix theory is worthwhile considering! It is very sad though, that people in this day and age still believe in a flat earth and God!

You people are truly pathetic! Have you ever seen the earth from space with your own eyes? You can go to places on this plain and see beautiful star lit skies and what we claim is the milky way… but yet, NOT ONE image from nasa, the joke of a moon landing or anywhere else shows ANY stars! Not one video, image , looks into space, the moon or towards the sun 93 mill miles away lol while they are up there. Oddly, we can only view the moon from here or go back in time and watch the production version. I understand you have been fooled since birth, in school and beyond… but you are puppets.

You say how can you believe what was written in a book about a God and what a man tells you about it… what is science doing?? There is way more evidence for a flat earth than a ball. Curious that our great space agency is slowly shutting down. No more trips to the moon. No more shuttle runs, the space station shutting down. How are they getting home? It is clear that some are very passionate about what they believe and rightly so, as free speech is alive, now all this talk about seeing ships sailing off into the distance and over the horizon and then being able to see it again through a telescope, have flatearthers actually tried this for themselves?

I have lived near the ocean and have had a good telescope, but when ships sail past that horizon, they do go out of sight and past the horizon! The motto of the Flat Earthers is to do your own research. It reminds me of a story that happened to me once.

I had originally thought the show was a conservative based interpretation of world events , but after listening I discovered that it was so out of touch with reality, I realized it could only be satire. I almost got tricked when the hurricane was approaching Texas and the host told people not to buy supplies or take safety precautions.

Then the host jumped on his private plane and got out of Dodge. I became convinced once again that the show was comedy. Unfortunately, the host was clearly an amateur, since he should have remained in character and stayed put. I am now researching the possibility that he might be a POE as no one could possibly spew so much incorrect information and be serious. I am waiting for Snopes to get back to me. My point is, always do your own research, how could you possibly fail? How big would map books be if they were produced round, get real mate.

Good One Pete, no photos, no proof, I wonder if FlatEarthers are just wondering how many poorly educated people they can get to follow them…. May the invisible spirit in the sky bless you all, enjoy your pizza talk! Sign me up! Please support the work of the Skeptics Society. Make the world a more rational place and help us defend the role of science in society.

Harriet Hall M. Understanding the difference could save your life! In this superb part video lecture series, Harriet Hall M. This free booklet reveals 10 myths that explain why terrorism is not a threat to our way of life or our survival. Michael Shermer has compiled a list of the top 10 strangest beliefs that he has encountered in his quarter century as a professional skeptic.

What is a conspiracy theory, why do people believe in them, and can you tell the difference between a true conspiracy and a false one? Mind altering experiences are one of the foundations of widespread belief in the paranormal. But as skeptics are well aware, accepting them as reality can be dangerous…. Find out in this pamphlet!

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Psychic readings and fortunetelling are an ancient art — a combination of acting and psychological manipulation. This site requires it to function properly. Please turn it on in your browser preferences. Insight Insight at Skeptic. The Earth is Round The evidence for a spherical Earth is overwhelming. See for example Sebastian Kettley. For a discussion of the finer complexities of describing the slightly irregular shape of the globe, see Isaac Asimov. See Richard Milner and Michael Shermer. On the Heavens. Oxford: Clarendon Press, New York: Random House, New York: Praeger, Johannes de Sacrobosco.

Lynn Thorndike, trans. Tractatus de Sphaera On the Sphere of the World. Early 13th century, translation published Earth Not a Globe! London: Simpkin, Marshall, and Co. London: Pan Books, pp. Lois Schadewald, Ed. Xlibris, David Adam. What planet is he on? See Garwood. This is a belief I hold as the beginning of an ongoing search for truth and certainty. It is a starting point—an intellectual foundation on which I feel further knowledge can soundly be built.

David says:. March 20, at pm. Gravelle says:. March 21, at am. Michel Latreille says:. Pete says:. Terry Moseley says:. Chris Sirola says:. Robert Cooper says:. Kevin Brady says:. Jack Feldman says:. Mark Perrault says:. Tzindaro says:. Bronco says:. ACW says:. Bad Boy Scientist says:. Raf Ollivierre says:.

A reader says:. Daniel Loxton says:. William Winkelman says:.


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March 21, at pm. OldNassau67 says:. Steve Kist says:. Joe says:. March 22, at am. Colin Hall says:. Latero sidethink Hp. Bruce Robinson says:.